Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Welcome back to Leading with Grace, Grit and Greatness. Don't miss a second of this show or any other NOW media television favorite. Welcome to Leading with Grace, Grit and Greatness. I'm Vikita Poindexter, your host. Today we're talking to leaders who achieve the title, earn the trust and deliver results, but still feel that quiet internal nudge that something is missing. Today I have the honor of meeting with Dr. Robin Owens. Dr. Owens is an author, speaker, speaker, professor and the host now of the top ranked podcast leadership purpose with Dr. Robin. She helps high achieving women choose no clothes.
[00:00:43] Speaker B: Yeah, she put shoes. It's close.
All right.
[00:00:50] Speaker A: My guest is Dr. Robin Owens, an author, speaker, professor and the host of the top rate podcast leadership purpose with Dr. Robin. She helps high achieving women close what she calls the purpose gap. But that's a good one. The distance between external success and internal fulfillment and make clear, confident decisions at an. At a career turning point. So, Dr. Robin, welcome.
[00:01:19] Speaker B: Thank you.
[00:01:20] Speaker A: So let's talk about that time or that, that, that intersection when life looks aligned, but your spirit knows it isn't.
[00:01:27] Speaker B: First, I want to say thank you for having me here. Absolutely delight to be here with you and I appreciate all the good work you're doing for leadership and for people in leadership. Thank you. Thank you. Okay. All right. So now ask me the question again.
[00:01:41] Speaker A: So tell me about that moment or let's talk about the moment in life where you're trying to make it alive but your spirit is saying, no, that's not it.
[00:01:49] Speaker B: Yes, yes. And that is a tricky moment because we are feeling something when we have that, that doesn't seem to make sense because there's no clear thing to put your finger on. Can't quite put your finger on it, but you know, something's missing and this is not it. And the reason why you have that feeling is because of what you just talked about, what I call the purpose gap. The way you are expressing, living, leading on the outside is no longer in alignment with who you are on the inside. And so that's why it's hard to put your finger on it, because it's a gap that's so good. Yeah.
[00:02:26] Speaker A: Why do women struggling in this area so much? Yes, especially high achieving women.
[00:02:30] Speaker B: I think high achieving women, because high achieving women, and I am one of them, of course we got this way because we were able to perform well. And when you're performing well, whether it's in school, you get the grades, whether it's in the profession, you get the promotion, you lead the team you move, you're doing well.
It seems like your identity is based on those external expectations.
So when you have a series of those in your life, it's ingrained in what you think you are and who you think you are, but really it's not. And there is the disconnect, because that's not really where it comes from. But we have so much experience with it, we're not even thinking outside of that.
[00:03:15] Speaker A: That's good. The purpose gap.
[00:03:17] Speaker B: The purpose gap.
[00:03:19] Speaker A: So when you decided to start your podcast and really talk about the purpose gap, tell me, how did that all come about?
[00:03:26] Speaker B: Well, I'll tell you the backstory just a little bit and then move forward, and you can ask me if you want to fill in.
[00:03:33] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:03:34] Speaker B: I had my own purpose gap, where many stories start with a person who has that own experience.
Years ago, in my first professional career, I had that experience in a leadership role at a very young age and said, this is. Everybody applauded.
This is wonderful. You have success at such a young age. You're leading people twice your age, and for them, it was success.
Five years into it, I just couldn't do it anymore because, you know, I kept thinking to myself, this is not who I am.
But it seems like I should just be quiet and appreciate it and be grateful because everybody's saying, this is what you went to school for, and this is a huge accomplishment.
So I had that experience. And so then it took me years to discover what I teach now on how to close that purpose gap.
First, my experience. And then, as you mentioned, I have a podcast. I have spoken to over 200 women, and I've heard this story over and over and over again. So it was not just me. So I began to recognize the pattern, and I said, ah, this is a pattern that goes beyond me. I had a feeling it was there before I started the podcast, but I said, I will start the podcast and see if I can find women who've had this experience and hear what they have to say. And lo and behold, I found them. Like I say, I'm like 200, over 200 women into the podcast and recognizing that this is beyond just me.
[00:05:09] Speaker A: That's interesting. That's interesting. So do you think that it has anything to do with the limitations that women have had previously? Not being able to have seats at the table, not being able to excel in particular roles of leadership.
Now when they are able to do that, they take on every single thing that they possibly can because they feel like they missed out on something or they're trying to be something that other people say they should be.
Why do you think that this purpose gap exists?
[00:05:38] Speaker B: Yeah, And I think in addition to what you said. Yes, I agree with that. And there's a sense of responsibility because often they are the only one, the only woman, the only one who has this particular role or this particular accomplishment in this area or one of a few.
And what comes with that is a burden. Right. And a responsibility.
And so you just keep going at it because you don't even give yourself time to think about, I can do. Maybe do something more in alignment with me or switch the way I'm doing it in a way that's in alignment with me, because it's not even a thought. Because the responsibility and the burden to do it and out of a heart for helping others and thinking about others.
So sometimes the weight ends up on the shoulders of the woman who's trying to bear it all.
[00:06:31] Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, I think women, we say, we can do it all, we can have it all, but at what expense? You know, when you talk about the purpose gap, what are the first signs of a lead that a leader experiences before she admits that something's off?
[00:06:43] Speaker B: Yeah. She starts to feel a drain in her energy.
And I'm saying she. It could be anyone, but I'm using the example of women because I work with women. Sure. But the drain on the energy, this continual fatigue, not the kind of thing that, oh, okay, let me get some good sleep for a few days or take a vacation and you come back refreshed. That doesn't refresh it.
You just can't shake it because it's not coming from the outside.
It's not this fatigue, this energy drain is not coming from the outside. It's coming from the inside.
[00:07:18] Speaker A: And you're talking to or Speaking with women, 200 women, that's quite a few.
What have you seen the common theme as to how they recognize it, deal with it?
Well, let's talk about recognizing it. And then what. What things are you doing to help them to deal with it, to fill that particular gap?
[00:07:40] Speaker B: Okay, let's start with the recognition.
Many different women, different. It shows up in different ways. One, I told you about the energy, just drained, just exhausted. Another, what I call a symptom is.
And this is not a medical diagnosis or anything, but I'm just using this word. Symptom is this feeling of just going through the motions and there's nothing wrong, everything's going well, but I'm just kind of going through the motions, just numb.
Everything is all right. Could have just received a promotion or an accolade that other people will be overjoyed about. And they are. And you're like just feeling numb, just going through the motions. So that's another symptom. So the energy, that idea of going through the motion and sometimes it's even physical responses. I've heard that many women, different kinds of physical responses in the body.
[00:08:33] Speaker A: Right.
[00:08:34] Speaker B: And the medical professionals say, I don't see where this is coming from. I don't see anything wrong with your body.
And for me, it wasn't as drastic, but it was a sign.
As I mentioned to you in my first, that leadership role, in the middle of the day, 10 o' clock in the morning, I'm just going about my business, walking through the office and suddenly nosebleed, gushing.
And it got my attention. Like, what's happening here?
[00:09:00] Speaker A: Right.
[00:09:01] Speaker B: So other people, they talk about headaches, Sunday night headaches, look at before Monday, other gut issues, the stomach is telling you something's off.
And so different, so many women have had so many different variations of your, the body speaking.
And when that happens, I often call that a purpose wake up call.
[00:09:23] Speaker A: That's good. A purpose wake up call.
[00:09:24] Speaker B: A purpose wake up call. Your body is saying, pay attention because your life is trying to get your attention.
[00:09:31] Speaker A: Right.
[00:09:31] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:09:32] Speaker A: And oftentimes we've heard of, you know, high achieving women, you know, 30s, 40s, having massive heart attacks and are just dropping dead because.
[00:09:43] Speaker B: Yes, these.
[00:09:44] Speaker A: I, I'm not a medical professional, but something has told them something is off.
[00:09:50] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:09:51] Speaker A: You know, we've heard that these women didn't have any problems with their heart.
[00:09:55] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:09:55] Speaker A: They were in stellar health conditions. They had no medical histories that had anything to do with cardiac disease.
[00:10:02] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:10:03] Speaker A: And then just boom.
[00:10:04] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:10:04] Speaker A: And so that's also a sign of being misaligned.
[00:10:07] Speaker B: I believe that too. I believe that too.
[00:10:10] Speaker A: What's the difference between burnout and I've outgrown the version of my success?
[00:10:14] Speaker B: Yeah. Burnout is.
Remember I mentioned that example where you could take a break. Burnout. You can do all the things that burnout specialists tell you to do and recover and feel like you've had a sense of recovery, like, oh, you know, I took a sabbatical or I did all the things, you know, ate all the food, did the exercise, went to the spa, whatever it is, for a period of time and kind of have a sense of recovered energy. That's burnout, misalignment.
There's no sense of recovery unless you close the gap, the purpose gap.
[00:10:50] Speaker A: So, so Just for our viewers. So they are very clear when you're talking about their purpose. Right. They may be thinking that what they're doing is their purpose. So how do you help them really kind of understand, okay, am I walking in my purpose or.
And I still feel like, you know, I'm exhausted, I'm tired, I'm this, that, and the other. So how. How do they know if they're walking in their purpose or not?
[00:11:12] Speaker B: I love that question. I'm so glad you asked that, because people ask me that all the time when they hear that I talk about this work.
And it's a natural thought, because in our society, we're taught your purpose is your title, your role, your career.
In my experience, my research, my expertise, that is not your purpose.
Your purpose. And this is going to sound hard to hear at first, but hopefully, stay with me. Your purpose is to be true to who you are.
That's good first.
Then you can put that into the career, the role, the profession. But you have to be true to who you are. What's happening with that disconnect in the purpose gap is you're not being true to that.
So if you're like other people, you say, well, how do I know who I am? Some people say that, well, what do you mean, who am I? I say, there are parts of you that give you clues about who you are. Because sometimes we hear people who talk about purpose. They say, find your purpose. If you find your passion, you found your purpose, right? I think that's incomplete.
And others say, well, if you follow your values, you follow your. You follow your purpose. I think that's incomplete.
Think your purpose comes. Here's how you figure it out. This. This idea of expressing who you are. There's four parts of you that will help you get at this. It includes your passions, includes your values, but also those things you're good at, what comes naturally to you, things that are easy for you but hard for others.
So it's not just one, it's all three.
Some aspects of something you love, your passions, some aspect of something that really matters to you, your values, and some aspect of something that comes naturally to you when you combine them. Because those are all parts of you, your purpose parts, and you use them in service.
Like, I'm making a contribution to this organization or to these people or to whatever the thing is. Then you're in your purpose.
[00:13:14] Speaker A: That's good. We got to go to commercial. But I want to delve so much.
Listen, I'm at a loss for words. I want to Delve more into this. Because a lot of people don't know their purpose. They think they do, but they really don't. And so, and then I want to just talk a little bit more about does your purpose shift?
So we'll be right back.
So welcome back.
So we were just, you know, before we went to commercial, you were talking about there were four different areas, right. And you really defined each one of them. And I think one of the questions that I have is when we talk about high achieving women and, and in leadership roles, right. That will shift depending upon the roles that they had or are, are going into.
Does the purpose shift at different stages in their life? And if so, how do they identify when that shift is happening?
[00:14:12] Speaker B: I love that question on many levels.
[00:14:15] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:14:15] Speaker B: Because you're hitting the nail on the head.
All right. In my perspective, your purpose is to be who you are, right? So you have those parts of you always in operation.
And as you continue to learn and grow, so do they.
Therein lies the trouble. When you get. Well, it's not trouble, the problem, the issue when you start feeling the gap. Because when you're in the purpose gap, it's not a failure, it's that you're growing.
You have evolved.
You didn't fail, you just evolved. But what you're doing has not evolved with you.
[00:14:54] Speaker A: That's good.
[00:14:54] Speaker B: So you bring your identity, who you are first, then you bring that to your role.
So your purpose is not that role, the title, the promotion, the profession.
It's bringing who you are. And as you learn and grow, it has to learn and grow with you. Whether you stay in that role and revise what you're doing or move to another one.
[00:15:14] Speaker A: That's good. That's good. I know. Oftentimes when I'm talking to people in my business, I tell you failure is an event, not a person.
[00:15:21] Speaker B: That's right.
[00:15:22] Speaker A: You're not a failure.
Whatever assignment you were doing just didn't come to completion. So I think that's good. So how do you maintain a alignment as you are transitioning to all these different positions or in life in general? You know, how do you stay in line? 30, 40, 30 turning 40, 40 turning 50 and then 50 turning 60. Because things shift, things change.
So how do, how do you stay aligned? Your purpose, I'm sure, probably shouldn't, but how do, how do you stay aligned?
[00:15:53] Speaker B: Yes, you stay in line by making decisions that keep you in alignment.
And of course I have this framework for that using those, those three plus the service, those four parts of you, you Bring those into your decision making process.
So now let's say a person is in this. I was like, I'm asking myself, is this really all there is?
And so you find yourself asking questions like that and you find yourself thinking, what most people do is say, I need to do something else immediately. I need to do something else. So strategy.
No, you come back to who you are first.
Come back to who you are.
Look at what you're doing. So let's say you're making a decision. Leave or stay or what's going on?
Whatever I'm doing right now.
Are these four parts engaged?
Passions, values, natural abilities in service.
If any of them are not in operation, then you have grown and what you're doing has not grown. So then you say, what do I do next?
Well, you take some time wherever you are, if you feel like, okay, I'm in an organization, I want to stay here, but maybe do something else. For example, I was working with a woman who was like a vice president in a large insurance company that if I said the name, people would know, right? And she says, I'm just at a stage in my life.
I feel like I've been given to my husband, my daughter's out of college or in college and now it's my time and I've been doing this job for I think like 15, 20 years.
Rose up the ranks and said, this is really not it.
And then we worked together, looked at her purpose parts, helped her make a decision using those.
And she decided not to leave the company because there was something, there was a little side project that she did just a little bit of the time. She loved that, okay, it meet it met all four of the parts of her, but she wasn't doing it enough and she kind of started it on her own. It wasn't really part of her, her role. She just loved doing that and she started this thing. So then we talked. It's like, is there any way you can increase the amount of time you do that? If you could even doesn't have to change your whole job, but if you can get up to maybe 75% or 50% and, and the more she did that, she felt like now she renewed because she's in alignment with who she is. The work she was doing, the other part of the job became secondary along with some other help from her team. And she got to do the part that was fulfilling to her. So she's still with that same company, but now she's expressing her purpose.
[00:18:32] Speaker A: How do you get the women to do the Work of really kind of understanding that they're in this gap.
[00:18:40] Speaker B: And
[00:18:42] Speaker A: you got to do the work in order to never like using the word fix because it appears that something is broken. And nothing's ever broken. You're just misaligned. So how do you get women to really be able to understand. You're misaligned. And let me help you get into alignment. And by that we're going to do X, Y and Z. Because as women oftentimes.
Because although the roles that we carry, mother, wife, sister, brother, aunt, grandmother, business owner, entrepreneur, boss of 20 people, 30 people, whatever the situation is, walk me through how you would help a woman in that particular scenario get back aligned.
[00:19:19] Speaker B: Yeah. And the work that I do is for women who want to.
If a woman does not want to be aligned, she won't be sure.
And the way they come to me is they're at this moment in their life that they recognize that something has to change. I talk about it being a defining career crossroads.
So when they're at that moment, they know I want to make a change. I just don't know what it is. But I think if a person doesn't want to, you can't make them but
[00:19:48] Speaker A: say they want to. But, you know, they're not sure how to, because they don't want to, you know, quote, unquote, blow up their life, so to speak.
[00:19:54] Speaker B: Right.
[00:19:55] Speaker A: You know, everything is running fine, but they're not fine.
[00:20:00] Speaker B: Yes. Right.
[00:20:01] Speaker A: And they recognize that. They realize that. And they realize that I need to make this change. But if I make this change, like if I leave this corporate job, you know, with my salary, benefits and this, that and the other, even though it's not fulfilling, it's not part of my purpose, I'm literally could be potentially blowing up my life. How do you help them navigate through that?
[00:20:21] Speaker B: Yeah, and that's a scary thought. Nobody wants to blow up their life. Right. Because you have. We have responsibilities and we have the comfort and it's familiar to do those things. And often the identity is connected with that. And like the woman that. The example that I gave with the woman that I work with, she didn't have to blow up her house her whole life. She still had her husband, her daughter even had the same company that she was working for. She shifted her perspective to think about who she was first is just focusing on who she was.
Combination of those parts and how can I serve within that.
Nothing else has to change. Like in her example, some people may decide, I want to do something else. But she stayed with the Same company and even was doing a project already.
So it could be a matter of creating something within the role from who you are first. Identity first, strategy later.
Identity first, strategy later.
[00:21:18] Speaker A: I got a couple women I need you to talk to. But anyway, you talked about career crossroads.
You know, you talk about, you know, the framework. So let's talk a little bit about that.
Separating alignment from appearance.
[00:21:32] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:21:32] Speaker A: So what does that mean?
[00:21:34] Speaker B: Yeah, and, you know, it takes. We were talking about women being so busy, Right. It takes some time and some real discipline just to pause. Because when do we have time to pause? We have to kind of really say, I want to take some time and think about this.
So it starts with that pause to take some time to reflect.
And then once you're still and quiet, simple question, where in all this that I'm doing, what part of it is not really me? Because before even going through my whole process, we kind of know, like, this is just not me. This is not who I am.
That is the signal, and that is the way to turn it around.
[00:22:18] Speaker A: Yeah, that's good.
So in your work, right. What's the most common fall? False choice women think they're making at crossroads, and what's the real decision underneath it?
[00:22:29] Speaker B: Yeah. The decision they make is they think I have to do something right away.
Strategy. I have to update my resume or I have to leave. Or I have to. Strategy first.
Taking the same expectations and all the things that are with them that have influenced them already. And they say I have to do. Do something.
I say, not first.
First.
Let's look at who you are.
It was what I was saying to you before. Identity first, strategy later. So the mistake is just to move first thing. Let's take a step back, see if this matches who I have become.
That's the first step, and that's the decision. But they always think the decision is strategy. I have to leave this. I have to go. I have to do.
Leave, go, stay. That's not. That's not the first thing. The first thing is, am I bringing who I am to this? And then let that guide your next step with the strategies that we all know.
[00:23:30] Speaker A: I think the identity piece is probably the hardest piece for women to try to figure out. Like, what's your identity? You know, you're somebody's mom.
[00:23:38] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:23:39] Speaker A: Somebody's daughter. Somebody's wife, if you have a husband.
So how do you help them really figure out who their identity is? Yeah, because do they really know?
[00:23:49] Speaker B: Yeah. Many times people don't. They say, you know, I don't. I don't know who I am. Side note, you know, I'm a professor and in my work there I teach a class called who am I? And when I'm in conversations with high achieving women, sometimes I mention that class, my favorite class to teach, and they say, oh, I need that class.
So I can't tell you how many women have said that to me, which suggests what you just said. They feel like they don't know who they are. But separate from my work in the university, with my work with this, helping people with purpose and making clarity, making decisions with clarity at their career crossroads, I start with that and I help them learn those aspects, those parts of themselves, passions, values, natural abilities and who they are wired to serve and how they are wired to serve. And so we look at all of those. So then they can take that and always have that for the rest of their life. It could tweak it and change it, but have that to make decisions with and use that as the basis of all your decisions. So you not only get in alignment with your purpose, but you stay in alignment with your purpose. Sure.
[00:24:57] Speaker A: Well, I don't know about you guys, but this is so good. This is so good. We're going to be right back and we're going to talk a little bit more with Dr. Robert. I literally could talk to her for hours. We'll be right back.
If you haven't watched this full episode, make sure that you go back and watch it. You can watch it on Roku and now media because I'm telling you, this conversation is absolutely amazing. So Dr. Robin, I know we talked about, you know, your work purpose gap, but I'm going to call you the purpose maker. Right.
Um, tell me, you know, give me one clarity question that you would, that you would use that will cut through, cut through overthinking fast and why it works.
[00:25:39] Speaker B: I love that question. Because as high achieving women, that's what we do. We think a lot of what benefited us is because we think so. It's naturally a byproduct of overthinking that comes into the situation. So I don't want to say that's, you know, something that is wrong, but something we do. But when we're in a situation of overthinking like that, one way to cut through the noise is to say how much of this.
Let me change the question. Sure.
Ask yourself, if I could remove all the expectations, external expectations, what everybody else is thinking and wanting, I let that go.
Then does this, is this still true for me, this thing I'm thinking About or this thing I'm doing or this thing I want to do.
Releasing those external expectations opens up what you really want.
Because often it's driven by that with everything little to small.
I mean, little to big.
[00:26:42] Speaker A: Yeah, that's so good.
How do you coach leaders to evaluate risk in a healthy way?
[00:26:50] Speaker B: Mm.
Well, we know risk is a part of life and we have to take risk. The approach to risk is to be thoughtful.
To be thoughtful, take some time, recognize that it's there, but also build in. The strategy that I often talk about and I've been talking about here is to approach what you're doing from who you are first and strategy later.
Weigh the risk with that in mind, but recognize that it's there. But start with who you are first, strategy later.
[00:27:26] Speaker A: That's good. That's good. So what does it mean to build self trust as, as a leadership skill?
[00:27:30] Speaker B: Yeah, right.
[00:27:31] Speaker A: Because we, we have Brig Myers that tells us what leadership skills look like. We have Enneagram that tells us what skills look like. But from your perspective, not that any of those are incorrect, that's more for business or, you know, this, that and the other. But when you're talking about building self trust and leadership skills so that you're not outsourcing the next chapter of everybody else's opinion of you.
[00:27:54] Speaker B: Yes, yes. I love all these questions.
Trying to think of another way to say it, but I just love the questions.
[00:28:01] Speaker A: I can spend so much time talking to you. We can sit here, talk for hours. I'm just like, yes. My brain is like, like a sponge.
And in my mind, are you doing this? Are you doing this? Are you doing this?
[00:28:10] Speaker B: So yeah, this is good.
Okay. All right, so say the question.
[00:28:14] Speaker A: Sorry, I got off track. Got so off track. So what does it need to build self trust as a leadership skill?
[00:28:20] Speaker B: Self trust, that's right, self trust.
Once you, it's almost like when you work out, you develop a muscle, when you develop a muscle of making decisions in the way that I talked about before from who you are, and you see the result of that, the liberation, the freedom that comes with that. It builds a level of confidence. Do that in one area, do it with this other thing and this other thing. And after a while your muscles are strengthening, your decision making muscles.
[00:28:49] Speaker A: Right.
[00:28:49] Speaker B: And so now you're feeling like, I got this right? Now I know absolutely what they're expecting.
I'm not going to do that because it goes against everything of who I am.
Because you built up enough self trust now before, didn't have time to do it, because it was just all that noise. And we talked about in the beginning, sure. We were developed in that, you know, it's what made us who we are, the expectations. That's how we got to success and to leadership. But now you've built this success through in your own internal self trust.
This does not match who I am.
Then this is not the way to go. And after doing that a few times, there's no going back.
[00:29:33] Speaker A: So one of the things that I think would be challenging is women that are trying to deal with the perception, you know, especially high achieving women, you know, in leadership roles, CEOs, you know, VPs of this, that and the other C suite leaders. Right. Is how are they going to be able to handle or how do you coach them as the purpose maker? I love that. And we're going to talk about that a little bit later.
Um, how do you coach them in really not dealing with the perception of others? Right.
Because as you know, high achieving women leaders, we, we have a challenge. Right. You know, it is, we're, we're, we're not assertive, we're aggressive. Right. We have all of that negative labels that are attached to, you know, our, our successes and our achievements. And so now that we're redefining who we are, how do we deal with, notice I'm saying we, how do we, how do we deal with the perception that others may have as we're making
[00:30:29] Speaker B: this shift within our lives, the perceptions that other people have of us, that's external.
We can't change that.
[00:30:40] Speaker A: Sure.
[00:30:41] Speaker B: There's nothing we can do about that.
We can change how we respond to it. So how do we respond to it? That's good. Building that muscle. When you get to the point, it seems hard in the moment because you're in it. Right.
It's a lot of pressure.
But the muscle, I've seen it, I've done it myself and I've seen it in others. You can build the muscle to the point where.
No, that's out there. Sure.
This is who I am, this is what I'm going to do. And it doesn't always mean that you're going to blow up your life, change your life or even change the job.
It's how you approach it.
It's how you approach it.
[00:31:18] Speaker A: You know, I often tell leaders, you know, especially women like you can't be consumed with other people's perception because perception is not always reality. The only reality that you need to be consumed with is your own.
[00:31:29] Speaker B: That's right.
[00:31:30] Speaker A: And so, you know, I'm Pretty direct and straight to the point. Like, I could really care less what people think about me because when I go home, I gotta like me. When I wake up in the morning, I gotta like me. When I look in the mirror, I gotta like me. I'm concerned with, only with, with one other person that is concerned. I think, I think what I'm trying to say, I'm only concerned with the narrative of one person and his perception of me. And then minus second.
But that's, that's very, very hard because as women, we're conditioned right from the womb. We are conditioned to be a certain way.
[00:32:03] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:32:04] Speaker A: So really trying to change that narrative after 50 years or 60 years is tough.
[00:32:08] Speaker B: Yeah.
To your point, it didn't happen overnight, so it doesn't change overnight. It's not like I say this, you say this, and then magic is gone. No, it, it doesn't have to take the 50 years that it took to develop it. But if you're in the middle of a crisis, it won't happen because you're right. You got to handle the immediate thing. Right. But outside of a crisis moment, and you're in this kind of crossroads moment, it could happen, but it doesn't happen immediately. And it doesn't have to take a million years either. But it's just not immediate.
[00:32:43] Speaker A: Sure. How do you help, how do you help women, though? Because, you know, in the society, it's like a microwave. Like this is a microwave society. Like, we want everything right now. And literally it used to be, you know, you push the microwave for like three minutes. Now it's 30 seconds. Right. And then if, if they create a microwave that says 10 seconds, we want the food warm in 10 seconds. So how do you, you know, we want everything right now. Yeah, we wanted to achieve success right now. We wanted to get to that level right now.
[00:33:10] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah.
[00:33:11] Speaker A: We want to do the work and we want results right now. So we're right now, immediate generation.
And patients, nobody wants patience because, you know, it brings adversity.
How do you help women navigate that microwave right now? Change it today mentality.
[00:33:28] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. And it's just being honest. Like the woman I mentioned to you about the, at the insurance company, just being honest. This is not going to come out in 30 seconds. Seconds.
[00:33:37] Speaker A: Sure.
[00:33:37] Speaker B: It might be a minute or two minutes and it was just a matter of hours for her over, you know, several more days, matter of hours. But it's not going to be instant like tomorrow I'm going to know, just not going to happen. If a person is Expecting that. Then maybe there's another approach that I don't know about. You could just go and leave, just have a knee jerk reaction. Sure. But if you really want a foundation that's going to sustain you not just in this situation, but from situation, situation to situation for the rest of your life.
Because I know I've been living like this for the past 15 or more years, probably 20 years.
Just fulfillment.
Of course, life happens and you have all the stuff. But in terms of the things that I can control and the things that I do and people say to me, why are you smiling all the time? Because like you, I've been released from.
[00:34:28] Speaker A: Right, right.
[00:34:29] Speaker B: I've been released from that.
So if you can't wait several hours to do it, I don't know how else you do it. Because I'm just talking a matter of hours, I'm not talking years, months to start developing that muscle. Sure.
[00:34:43] Speaker A: So I know we've been talking a lot about high achieving women because that's your area of focus, but how do we prevent young women of today to not to get to this point?
[00:34:52] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah.
[00:34:53] Speaker A: You know, what kind of tools would you be able to say to them or I mean, what would you say to them to say you're starting this journey, you know, you're talking to 27 year olds, 30 year olds. Right. They're, they're just starting.
But we want to help them not to get to this point where they got to figure out who they are.
[00:35:10] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:35:10] Speaker A: What is it that you can share with us to help them define who they are today?
[00:35:15] Speaker B: Yes. I love that question again because two things come to mind. I'll say, let's say them both. I had a internship with my 16 year old niece to see if a. 16. Because other people were saying to me, you can bring this into high schools. Because I was doing it with college students.
[00:35:31] Speaker A: Absolutely.
[00:35:32] Speaker B: And I didn't know if a high school student, if they were there yet. So I had this summer internship with my, was about a month, but we dragged it out over the month just so I could hang out with her. But anyway, the change in her in that short amount of time, it just was amazing to me and she could see it herself.
So now she has something that I didn't have at 16 that she can bring into the rest of her life. And in terms of the college students that I work with, I don't do this particular work, but I do that. Who am I? I use a different approach for that. Just to keep everything clear. My work and the college's work but we do the same similar process and they feel equipped.
Some of them may make a decision. They're deciding things like for college students, they're deciding things like their major, right? What the profession they want to go in. And three, three categories of responses.
Some said, you know, here's one said, she said I was going to major in psychology but you know, I'm going to change my major to child development because I really love children. I was just going to go in psychology because I thought it paid more.
That's one category. The second category was, you know, I'm in the right place. I know that this is matching, this is in alignment with who I am, this is my major, this is my career journey. And then that was the second category and the third category was, you know, I still don't know what I want to do but I feel like I have a tool to help me keep going to find what I want to do. So across the college age student those were the three categories that I've been seeing as I work with them.
[00:37:14] Speaker A: I think it's so crucial like you know, I know we got to run a commercial and then we come back we're going to talk about reinvention without self betrayal but I think you have an opportunity to spend it with your 16 year old niece.
I think that was awesome. I think this is something that would be great for high school juniors before they step into being a senior because young women are carrying more now with social media and everything else. I mean more mature women because you know, I know of a older but more mature women in their 30s and their 40s and you know, for those of us that are in their 60s, there's so much with social media that you know, all the comparison and you know, trying to, to get the likes and the followers and trying to figure out who we are right Comparing ourselves to somebody else. But I think that core generation of young, of young ladies stepping into before they get to college. I think there's a whole nother market out there for you Dr. Owens, this purpose maker. So you know, maybe that's something you and your 16 year old niece can kind of tackle together. We'll be right back. We're going to talk more with Dr. Owens. I know, I hope y' all enjoying this because this is good stuff right here. We'll be right back.
So welcome back. If you ever thought I'm grateful but I'm not fulfilled, this segment is definitely for you. Dr. Robin helps high achieving women move from quiet discontent to confident, purpose, aligned Leadership without blowing everything that you've built. So before I jump into that particular conversation, every person, I'm not just going to say women, obviously we're special. And so of course we have a passion for us. But every person needs to have this information, tell our audience how they can reach you, where they can find you, how can they get in contact with you, how can they get coaching sessions, how can they have some one on one time with the Purpose Maker?
[00:39:11] Speaker B: Yes. I love that. I love that. All right. I would encourage people to listen to my podcast, leadership purpose with Dr. Robin, wherever they listen to podcasts, because this will bring you along the way. I mean, you have to pay for anything. It's free content every week. Leadership purpose with Dr. Robin. But I'm also, I spend a lot of my time on LinkedIn in terms of social media, and my website is RobinLowens.com Robin L. Owens.com. but if you just Google Robin L. Owens, you find me.
[00:39:38] Speaker A: Absolutely. So robinlowens.com I just want to make sure y' all heard that. Okay, so let's talk about, let's pivot. You know, talking about maturity, renegotiating boundaries, changing your leadership operating system, resetting your mindset. It's almost like you, you're a human computer. You know, you got to turn that bad boy off. You need to reboot it, you need to reset it. Right. You need to download some new programs and delete some others.
[00:40:03] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:40:04] Speaker A: So tell me, what's the hidden cost that people really don't understand for staying in outdated roles? What does it cost leaders that really don't understand it till it shows up in their health, their relationships? And here's the biggest one for me, stills your joy.
[00:40:19] Speaker B: Yes, yes.
The cost of that. I mean, all of those. The flip side, they all have a cost. Your health is at stake.
Relationships, professional and personal relationships are at stake. And inner joy.
You know, I didn't, I didn't mention this earlier when we talked about it, but I didn't know about it then. But looking back, this is what started my journey when I grew up. My mother was the valedictorian of her high school class. So she was smart. She wanted to go to college. Her family, there were 13 kids. They couldn't send them all to college. They sent the boys, the two older boys, because they said they'll have families, you guys will get married and your husband will take care of you.
That was going against who she was. She wanted to go to college and be a teacher.
You know what she did instead? She Worked in a factory for 35 years and hated it for 35 years.
And as a young teenager, I'm watching this and I'm saying to myself, something's not right here. She hates this. And then when I got a little older and I could look back on it, I said this was, I didn't have the language, but misalignment.
And what I noticed when she was coming home and talking about, about that during that time when I was in high school, she had bouts of depression. We're talking about risk. She had bouts of depression. And when I look back on it, I'm convinced it was because she had to live in a role that was not suited for her.
She did it to take care of the family, which I'm grateful for, but it just seemed to tear at who she was. And I think that depression was, was a, a direct result. Now, you know, I'm not a doctor in that, in that way, but we're talking about risk. I think mental health is a risk. It is a risk, whether it's extensive or what we might consider, you know, just kind of, I mentioned before, just going through the motions, no energy, just lethargic all the way to the point of, you know, depression. To go against yourself like that, it impacts your mind, your body, your spirit, your relationships, your life.
[00:42:38] Speaker A: Right.
So your purpose was degrade through the trials and tribulations your mother endured.
So that's the blessings in the midst of the chaos.
[00:42:49] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:42:50] Speaker A: Mental health is at an all time high because what did we do? We kept it a secret.
[00:42:56] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:42:57] Speaker A: Nobody dealt with it because of all the negative. Again, stereotypes, stigma, stigmas. That's a. Associated with that. So now we're starting to see people that are really kind of reaching out and get treatment for mental health. Mental health for women is higher.
[00:43:08] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:43:08] Speaker A: And part of the reason why could be because we're. I'm not a doctor. You're not a doctor. So let me put our disclaimers out. But we're women leaders, so we understand part of it could be just out of alignment.
[00:43:22] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:43:22] Speaker A: Doing what your mother did just because she needed to.
[00:43:27] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:43:28] Speaker A: It's funny, your mother had 13. It was 13 of them. Yeah, my mother had 13. It was 13 of them. Really? So your mother sent the boys to school.
[00:43:35] Speaker B: Yeah, their. Yeah, their mother sent the boys and they said, you know, the girls, we can have enough. We're out of money now. Right.
[00:43:42] Speaker A: So out of 13 on my mother's side, she was the only one that went to college and they sent her to go live with her aunt and uncle so that she would get the education.
[00:43:51] Speaker B: Oh, interesting.
[00:43:52] Speaker A: That pressure.
[00:43:53] Speaker B: Yes, that pressure.
[00:43:54] Speaker A: You know, like you had her PhD in education, you know, wanted to teach and this, that, and the other.
But later on in life, we saw some misalignment.
[00:44:04] Speaker B: Yeah, right.
[00:44:04] Speaker A: And so I was able to see that. So I digress for a minute. But there's a lot of similarities in our conversations.
What does a graceful exit look like?
[00:44:13] Speaker B: A graceful exit?
It's the things we know about grace.
[00:44:17] Speaker A: Right.
[00:44:18] Speaker B: Honor the people.
Honor the people. Appreciate them. You know, this has served me well. This was. I appreciate what you've done here.
I am now at another stage of my growth, and what I need to do now is to be in this area of my growth. But I am appreciative and honor and name X, Y and z.
So then it's not about them, it's about you and moving in your. In your growth. And most people then will respond with grace accordingly.
[00:44:56] Speaker A: I think that's so wonderful because grace is my word. You know, I named my show. First word is grace.
And grace doesn't mean weak.
[00:45:04] Speaker B: Right.
[00:45:04] Speaker A: Grace does it mean. It just means humble.
I choose grace over whining and complaining because I've done both. And either. I mean, that one doesn't work.
And everything that we do, it should be with grace. We, the way we talk to people should be graceful. You know, if we've got to make some transitions, it could be graceful. If we have to end relationships, it can be done with grace and humility. So I think that's good.
[00:45:31] Speaker B: I grew up with the definition of grace as being unmerited favor.
[00:45:37] Speaker A: That's good.
[00:45:37] Speaker B: They may not deserve it, but show kindness. Right?
[00:45:42] Speaker A: Absolutely. Because, well, you know, I live my life by faith. And so, you know, God said kind kindness. Everybody's like, well, you should be nice. There's nowhere in the Bible said, be nice, nice. And that sounds harsh, but God didn't say be nice. He said be kind. Because there's a difference between the two. And so kindness is what we should strive to do.
[00:46:02] Speaker B: Right.
[00:46:03] Speaker A: And treat people the way we just want to be treated. And so I think that's a big think when the last question. Because I want to talk about the purpose maker. What's one powerful way to test drive the new direction that you're going in your life?
[00:46:15] Speaker B: Yeah. Again, look at.
Let's say you have an idea in your mind. I'm going to do this next chapter. This thing. This is what I want to do.
Step back, pause.
How much of this is Influenced by external expectations.
And do I see myself, really myself, who I am today, not who I was 10 years ago or 20 years ago. That got me here. Sure does. Is this in alignment with who I am today?
[00:46:45] Speaker A: That's good. So the Purpose Maker, I mean, you said some things and shared some things that I know that in my mind I'm trying to take copious notes. And this is definitely going to be an episode that I'm wanting to rewatch and take some more copious notes. Notes as well.
Tell us about the Purpose Maker.
[00:47:02] Speaker B: Okay, so you're talking about my book, I'm guessing because you're saying the Purpose Maker.
[00:47:06] Speaker A: Of course.
[00:47:07] Speaker B: The title of the book is Purpose Maker.
[00:47:09] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:47:10] Speaker B: Colon.
Deciding with Clarity at a Career Crossroads and Purpose Maker. I like that you said the. Because it's two things.
It's a framework that I've gave parts of today to show you how to do that. But once you learn how to do it, you become the person a Purpose Maker. So once you learn how to do it, you are a Purpose Maker. And part of it is that framework that I gave to you today earlier, along with some other supplemental steps that go with that. And I'm really excited about it. It stems out of my experience.
20 years of searching, my experience of research and background in my doctoral program, 200 women that I spoke to, the patterns across it and how to close that purpose gap.
[00:48:02] Speaker A: I think that's great. That I think that's phenomenal. I'm a firm believer that. Or just in me. Let me just speak for myself, but I'm still a firm believer in this, that people don't want to hear from someone who hasn't gone through it.
Like, tell me how to.
If you're going to tell me how to close that gap, how did you close your gap or did you even have a gap to close? Right. So people want to hear from people that have gone through some stuff. Right. They don't want to. They don't want to. They don't want to hear on how to do something that you haven't done or practice yourself.
[00:48:36] Speaker B: That's right.
[00:48:37] Speaker A: So I think that's. That's crucial and it's important. Now, when is the book coming out?
[00:48:40] Speaker B: The book is coming out in the fall. 2026.
[00:48:43] Speaker A: 2026. So. So we'll have you back.
[00:48:45] Speaker B: Okay, good.
[00:48:46] Speaker A: The book. So we can talk about the book and everything like that. So before I jump into some other questions, let's just tell the audience one more time because I think it's very important where can they find you? Where can they listen to the podcast? Where can they start their journey of, of, of their gap?
[00:49:02] Speaker B: Yes. Purpose right now can listen to the podcast Leadership purpose with Dr. Robin. Anywhere you find podcasts, including YouTube. Leadership purpose with Dr. Robin. Also my website, robinlowens.com robinlowens.com Perfect.
[00:49:18] Speaker A: I love it. So I always like to end my shows talking about legacy because I'm a firm believer that the work you do today builds a better tomorrow. So I know that you went on your own purpose, gap, journey, healing, realignment, so to speak.
So where you are today and then, and this is my part two question, we all know the date we were born, that date that we transition on, we don't know. But that dash in the middle is always critical. That's the legacy.
So tell me, what do you want your legacy to be?
[00:49:53] Speaker B: My legacy?
You know, a short way to say it, we were talking about grace. It's one of those words that encompasses a lot. My word, if I used one word, would be love.
But let me tell you what that looks like.
It's my personal mission to help people, whoever I come into contact with, but particularly in this work too, to help them see, know and act on the best of who they are.
And all the rest of this is a way of getting at that, see who you are. You can have self trust with those decisions and then act on it. You're in your purpose. So that's my personal mission. I do it in my conversations and any, it just comes out naturally. But a legacy would be somebody said, you know, when I think of her, I think of love. I see me, I see the best of me. Just not my 16 year old niece Kalia, but any woman or any man that I've ever spoken to.
[00:50:49] Speaker A: Well, let me tell you, Robin, Dr. Robin, I have thoroughly enjoyed this conversation. Thank you for, for sharing all of this wisdom, all of this knowledge. I know for a fact that it has blessed me. I know it's going to bless every single one of our listeners.
I tell you, I tell you there's two podcasts I listen to in the morning, one spiritual and then one leadership driven. And so, and that happens to be, I listen to a lot of Joel Olsteen. It keeps me motivated, keeps me, keeps my spiritual tank full. After I spend some time with, with my father. And then I listened to your podcast since I became aware of it and I've had to rewind and be like, well that's good.
And so literally I've been in the car with my son. He's like, who is that? I was like, please, soak it in. Soak it in. It's just not for women. That's right. And so he was like, she's good, mom. And this is my 27 year old.
[00:51:45] Speaker B: Wow.
[00:51:45] Speaker A: So let's know that the work that you are.
